Great article and many good points made - probably an anglophile thing but skills sets for Rugby and Cricket are the equal of if not far superior to NFL and baseball imho - so mystified as to the huge difference in ranking. Rugby - 80 mins of non stop action with each player having to demonstrate a wide range of skills -speed /dexterity/agility/decision making. Yes certainly there are specialist positions but all players need to be able to run/pass/kick/tackle - an if facing a small projectile from 22 yards travelling sometimes in excess of 150Km per hour - or catching the same projectile traveling a pace from half the distance of a short stop is a recreation I dont want to play games at your house. By the way - doesn't the silly hat thing also drop baseball to a simple recreational sport?
Rugby players can make decent American football players. The opposite is not the case because of the requirement to be moving almost continuously for 40 minutes instead of taking a breather every 30 seconds.
I'd also cite Jonah Lomu as one of the best athletes in the world.
Agree. I have played Rugby at hobby level. In Soccer and Basketball there is also a lot of running and changing direction, but in Rugby one also needs to push or pull against other people pushing or pulling at you. Also, the game usually is in muddy conditions, so simply getting up and running while your jersey is soaking wet in mud is hard (it's like swimming in clothes). Catching a ball is a challenge in wet conditions, because it's slippery. Is there any other sport that plays in the rain?
It's said the hardest thing to do in sports is to hit a baseball. The ability to see the pitch, "know" if it's a strike or a ball and what kind of pitch has to be done in a split second. That implies attributes that can't be taught. Improved upon but not taught. So where does that particular skill fit in? And does that make Babe Ruth the greatest athlete of all time?
I think you're right. There are some thing you just have or you don't. I played softball for fun as a kid, and usually didn't have trouble hitting that, but a) it's a bigger ball and b) it was coming in at about 4 miles an hour or something. These people who can hit 100 mph fastballs are just freaks of nature.
Yes. It's doable up to a certain point. Stickball, softball, little league, Babe Ruth. But after about high school baseball you have it or you don't. Wonder what the determine speed is and if they know why? It can't be just a matter of reflexes. Speed of nerve transmission, or ability to decide? Eyesight is critical. You probably need to be 20/10 or maybe "better". Ted Williams was a higher pilot in WW II and most of the really good ones had 20/10 or better vision. I suspect the same thing that makes certain athletes like Bolt faster makes hitters faster.
This was a pure, soul-fueling delight to read and to watch. I vote for a regular curation of your favorite athletic displays, achievements, and moments in sports.
I know you don't think much of swimming - but you might want to reconsider, at least certain events within swimming. My wife swam the English Channel, at the time, 20 years ago, only 900 people had ever accomplished that feat. The water is about 58-60 degrees, it is 26 miles and you don't get to wear anything but a traditional bathing suit - no wet-suits. She had the fastest time for any male or female the summer of 2001, and accomplished this while pregnant.
Only 1,881 people have ever completed a solo crossing of the English Channel - compared to the 50,000 people who finish Iron Man Triathlons every year.
Hi Jim: I will admit to you that swimming is the one sport that I struggle the most with in terms of evaluating it. What your wife has done is extraordinary, and I applaud her accomplishment!!!
If the high school water polo team played football against the football team, the football team would win but the water polo team could put up a fight. If they played water polo against each other, the football team could literally die.
Interesting article. I sort of agree. But not completely. You seem to ignore variations in muscle fiber types between the various sports. Lets look at Bo Jackson for instance:
"I have no doubt that Bo Jackson could have been a world class gymnast, soccer player, collegiate wrestler, or badminton player if he’d put his mind to it from an early age."
World class Gymnast: No, too big.
World class Soccer player: No, too much fast twitch muscle.
Collegiate wrestler: Probably, given todays rules and match length. Still I think he would struggle if his opponent could drag him into the third period.
I have not played baseball, and I don't understand where the athletics in baseball come in. Is it sprinting? Is the sprinting just as hard as real sprinting on a track?
It's a fair question, Boris. Several people have made the case for Rugby as equal to football and I think that's correct. The very same qualities and skills are involved in both sports. I didn't include in the second tier with football because I don't think the actual athletes in Rugby are in the same league as the athletes in football. I think American football players are both stronger and faster than Rugby players. I don't think Rugby players could play American football at the same the same level as American football players could play Rugby. I could be wrong about that, and I could easily (and with pleasure) move Rugby up a notch or two.
At least in North America, good Rugby players switch to playing Football, because it pays money. So all the remaining Rugby players exist in the countries where it actually pays to play this sport. (I don't think it pays as well though, as it it pays to play Football in the NFL.)
I haven't played Football, and don't know if a Rugby player would do well in that game. I have heard from one Rugby player who also played Football, that because of the shielding the front tackles are much stronger in Football. This was a surprise to me, because I until that point I thought that Football is a sport for the lazy.
On the IR front I finished a short hawkish book by Robert Kagan. John Mearsheimer is next. I'm curious which Founders had the best grasp of geopolitics. In Revolutionary Characters, Gordon Wood praises James Madison's approach towards the War of 1812 because it didn't compromise our ideals, but I don't feel as sanguine about that.
I'm surprised no one has yet mentioned Bullet Bob Hayes. He's from the 1960s and I think that the Dallas Cowboys were the first team to try to convert a pure sprinter to a wide receiver. It worked that time, but not always. Iirc, the 49ers tried to do that with Renaldo Nehemiah with less success. Willie Gault was a triple threat, iirc; track, football, and bobsled.
cj goad. Where would you rate this lady? Shanda Hill of Vernon B.C. The first Canadian to complete the Double-Deca. She did hers in 26 days. 844k running,3600kcycling, 76k swimming. I don't think any of the athletes you mentioned could come anywhere near that effort. Look her up she has some interesting training routines
You ranked swimming “begrudgingly”. This was the most controversial ranking, I saw. On the point of transferability, swimming by it’s nature is definitely not very transferable to other sports. Based on personal experience, doing sprint running events, C.C. and sprint triathlon—It does require more technique, coordination, and training to be competitive in swimming compared to sprint running events. From what I have seen, there is more competition in swimming in the US now than in track and field, more so before/outside of high school. I’ve also observed, that to be in the top tier of short distance events, requires you to be gifted. You can see this when some young swimmers will eclipse the progress of other swimmers with years more experience in a few weeks.
Concur about controversial... Concur about giftedness, just like the other sports, but as a somewhat experienced & marginally gifted (if at all) open water swimmer, the overall skill set is a tad more complex, i.e. when to breathe (waves matter), stroke technique is vastly different - possibly on every stroke, each computed in time to be effective, again on every stroke, based on keen situational awareness, endurance (my longest swim is 2 hours, other swim 8 hours - almost routinely). The situational awareness is possibly the biggest skill set as you move your whole body in response to wave position, current, etc. And the body motion will need finesse, every stroke. PS Training in the pool for open water is productive for a lot of the technique(s), but I've seen extraordinary pool swimmers fall apart in open water.
What are your thoughts on indoor bouldering? What’s fun about that activity is that you need to incorporate both mind and body to properly complete the routes. The higher the difficulty, the more taxing on your body and mind. However, I have seen athletic novice climbers struggle to complete routes, whereas some out-of-shape, though experienced climbers, complete difficult routes with ease.
I think this activity would be similar to gymnastics, as the transferability principle works in reverse, though not as dramatically.
Great article and many good points made - probably an anglophile thing but skills sets for Rugby and Cricket are the equal of if not far superior to NFL and baseball imho - so mystified as to the huge difference in ranking. Rugby - 80 mins of non stop action with each player having to demonstrate a wide range of skills -speed /dexterity/agility/decision making. Yes certainly there are specialist positions but all players need to be able to run/pass/kick/tackle - an if facing a small projectile from 22 yards travelling sometimes in excess of 150Km per hour - or catching the same projectile traveling a pace from half the distance of a short stop is a recreation I dont want to play games at your house. By the way - doesn't the silly hat thing also drop baseball to a simple recreational sport?
Rugby players can make decent American football players. The opposite is not the case because of the requirement to be moving almost continuously for 40 minutes instead of taking a breather every 30 seconds.
I'd also cite Jonah Lomu as one of the best athletes in the world.
Agree. I have played Rugby at hobby level. In Soccer and Basketball there is also a lot of running and changing direction, but in Rugby one also needs to push or pull against other people pushing or pulling at you. Also, the game usually is in muddy conditions, so simply getting up and running while your jersey is soaking wet in mud is hard (it's like swimming in clothes). Catching a ball is a challenge in wet conditions, because it's slippery. Is there any other sport that plays in the rain?
Very good points, Andrew. Much to consider.
It's said the hardest thing to do in sports is to hit a baseball. The ability to see the pitch, "know" if it's a strike or a ball and what kind of pitch has to be done in a split second. That implies attributes that can't be taught. Improved upon but not taught. So where does that particular skill fit in? And does that make Babe Ruth the greatest athlete of all time?
I think you're right. There are some thing you just have or you don't. I played softball for fun as a kid, and usually didn't have trouble hitting that, but a) it's a bigger ball and b) it was coming in at about 4 miles an hour or something. These people who can hit 100 mph fastballs are just freaks of nature.
Yes. It's doable up to a certain point. Stickball, softball, little league, Babe Ruth. But after about high school baseball you have it or you don't. Wonder what the determine speed is and if they know why? It can't be just a matter of reflexes. Speed of nerve transmission, or ability to decide? Eyesight is critical. You probably need to be 20/10 or maybe "better". Ted Williams was a higher pilot in WW II and most of the really good ones had 20/10 or better vision. I suspect the same thing that makes certain athletes like Bolt faster makes hitters faster.
This was a pure, soul-fueling delight to read and to watch. I vote for a regular curation of your favorite athletic displays, achievements, and moments in sports.
Hi Ashley: Thanks for the comment, and I like your suggestion.
No hate mail - just a fact for consideration.
I know you don't think much of swimming - but you might want to reconsider, at least certain events within swimming. My wife swam the English Channel, at the time, 20 years ago, only 900 people had ever accomplished that feat. The water is about 58-60 degrees, it is 26 miles and you don't get to wear anything but a traditional bathing suit - no wet-suits. She had the fastest time for any male or female the summer of 2001, and accomplished this while pregnant.
https://www.heraldnet.com/sports/regan-stacey-scheiber-distance-swimmer/
Only 1,881 people have ever completed a solo crossing of the English Channel - compared to the 50,000 people who finish Iron Man Triathlons every year.
Hi Jim: I will admit to you that swimming is the one sport that I struggle the most with in terms of evaluating it. What your wife has done is extraordinary, and I applaud her accomplishment!!!
If the high school water polo team played football against the football team, the football team would win but the water polo team could put up a fight. If they played water polo against each other, the football team could literally die.
This is very true, Alexis. Also true of rock climbing and ski jumping.
Interesting article. I sort of agree. But not completely. You seem to ignore variations in muscle fiber types between the various sports. Lets look at Bo Jackson for instance:
"I have no doubt that Bo Jackson could have been a world class gymnast, soccer player, collegiate wrestler, or badminton player if he’d put his mind to it from an early age."
World class Gymnast: No, too big.
World class Soccer player: No, too much fast twitch muscle.
Collegiate wrestler: Probably, given todays rules and match length. Still I think he would struggle if his opponent could drag him into the third period.
Badminton: No doubt!
I have not played baseball, and I don't understand where the athletics in baseball come in. Is it sprinting? Is the sprinting just as hard as real sprinting on a track?
Why do you think that Rugby is not in the same tier as Football?
It's a fair question, Boris. Several people have made the case for Rugby as equal to football and I think that's correct. The very same qualities and skills are involved in both sports. I didn't include in the second tier with football because I don't think the actual athletes in Rugby are in the same league as the athletes in football. I think American football players are both stronger and faster than Rugby players. I don't think Rugby players could play American football at the same the same level as American football players could play Rugby. I could be wrong about that, and I could easily (and with pleasure) move Rugby up a notch or two.
At least in North America, good Rugby players switch to playing Football, because it pays money. So all the remaining Rugby players exist in the countries where it actually pays to play this sport. (I don't think it pays as well though, as it it pays to play Football in the NFL.)
I haven't played Football, and don't know if a Rugby player would do well in that game. I have heard from one Rugby player who also played Football, that because of the shielding the front tackles are much stronger in Football. This was a surprise to me, because I until that point I thought that Football is a sport for the lazy.
I think that the top triathletes, in their respective distances, could be in tier 1 or 2.
Gotta work harder on your trolling. If you really want to rile people up, try saying something negative about soccer.
No mention of Jim Thorpe? He was the Bo Jackson of his day.
On the IR front I finished a short hawkish book by Robert Kagan. John Mearsheimer is next. I'm curious which Founders had the best grasp of geopolitics. In Revolutionary Characters, Gordon Wood praises James Madison's approach towards the War of 1812 because it didn't compromise our ideals, but I don't feel as sanguine about that.
I'm surprised no one has yet mentioned Bullet Bob Hayes. He's from the 1960s and I think that the Dallas Cowboys were the first team to try to convert a pure sprinter to a wide receiver. It worked that time, but not always. Iirc, the 49ers tried to do that with Renaldo Nehemiah with less success. Willie Gault was a triple threat, iirc; track, football, and bobsled.
cj goad. Where would you rate this lady? Shanda Hill of Vernon B.C. The first Canadian to complete the Double-Deca. She did hers in 26 days. 844k running,3600kcycling, 76k swimming. I don't think any of the athletes you mentioned could come anywhere near that effort. Look her up she has some interesting training routines
You ranked swimming “begrudgingly”. This was the most controversial ranking, I saw. On the point of transferability, swimming by it’s nature is definitely not very transferable to other sports. Based on personal experience, doing sprint running events, C.C. and sprint triathlon—It does require more technique, coordination, and training to be competitive in swimming compared to sprint running events. From what I have seen, there is more competition in swimming in the US now than in track and field, more so before/outside of high school. I’ve also observed, that to be in the top tier of short distance events, requires you to be gifted. You can see this when some young swimmers will eclipse the progress of other swimmers with years more experience in a few weeks.
Concur about controversial... Concur about giftedness, just like the other sports, but as a somewhat experienced & marginally gifted (if at all) open water swimmer, the overall skill set is a tad more complex, i.e. when to breathe (waves matter), stroke technique is vastly different - possibly on every stroke, each computed in time to be effective, again on every stroke, based on keen situational awareness, endurance (my longest swim is 2 hours, other swim 8 hours - almost routinely). The situational awareness is possibly the biggest skill set as you move your whole body in response to wave position, current, etc. And the body motion will need finesse, every stroke. PS Training in the pool for open water is productive for a lot of the technique(s), but I've seen extraordinary pool swimmers fall apart in open water.
What are your thoughts on indoor bouldering? What’s fun about that activity is that you need to incorporate both mind and body to properly complete the routes. The higher the difficulty, the more taxing on your body and mind. However, I have seen athletic novice climbers struggle to complete routes, whereas some out-of-shape, though experienced climbers, complete difficult routes with ease.
I think this activity would be similar to gymnastics, as the transferability principle works in reverse, though not as dramatically.